Thursday, May 7, 2009

More on Bloody Streets

So my co-blogger filled you all in on the (to my mind, at least) shocking comment made by a member of this community in advance of the latest school board election coming up in the near future:
"[O]ne man said that there would be “blood on the streets” if the “Orthodox school board” remained in control and the Number Six school is sold.

“They’re going to come after kids wearing yarmulkes,” he said.
I have to hope that most people who see this find it to be upsetting. Whether the comment was meant as a threat (scariest possibility), warning (still scary), or even a prediction (at the very least, highly irresponsible), the words should never have come out of the mouth of anyone who considers his/herself to be a reasonable person. Even if the quoted never intended the words to be a threat or a warning, to not consider that there are less mature or more hotheaded people who might actually consider acting on such ideas.

In addition, I think most people can agree that the mention of "blood on the streets" is a bit to close to home when there are likely many district residents who have living relatives who not too long ago, actually did witness blood on the streets and violence against anyone who identified as a Jew. Using such loaded imagery is just a huge mistake, no matter how you explain away your intentions. Try to imagine "warning" African-American members of our community that if they vote for the wrong item or candidate there will be "fires on front lawns". Can't really imagine that, can you. Well, if it's not OK there, it isn't OK here.

Which leads me to my third point. It's OK to sometimes make mistakes. It's possible that the person who made the comment spoke completely out of turn and didn't realize how inflammatory his comments would be. That does happen, though of course it shouldn't. The larger problem here is that I see comment after comment both here and here defending the use of such potentially incendiary language. Are people so blinded by their stance on the topic of local school board politics that they can't recognize completely irresponsible and dangerous speech when they see it? Is it so important to not ever be seen as sympathizing with the enemy that people can't do what is so patently the right thing and condemn what is so clearly language that has no place in this (or any) discussion?

Instead this story is endlessly parsed in comments.
First: "it didn't happen."
Then: "it might have, but it wasn't meant as a threat, just as a warning."
Then: "the police didn't really come to the meeting to question the man."
Then: "ok, maybe the police did question him but they knew he wasn't serious."
How about just agreeing, as any sane person should, that this kind of speech is a mistake and make it clear that you don't view it as a betrayal to your cause to treat other people like human beings - even if you disagree with some of their views?

I know that I, for one, would move on a lot quicker from this little incident if people would stop digging in their heels and pretending that such hate-filled speech is anything but reprehensible.

36 comments:

  1. Same old orthomom. welcome back!

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  2. Apparently she still hasn't heard of free speech!!! There is nothing illegal or irresponsible saying that the tension building could lead to violence. The thought may be scary, but not illegal. It is illegal for someone to say that they want to harm the president the united states, but not illegal to say that someone feels that there are others out there who want to do the same thing. It is opinion and not fact. I do not want to hurt anybody in the private school community, but do feel that there might be others out there who do. Pretty scary indeed, want this to change? Give the public back the public G_D damn schools back, and back the F off!!!!!

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  3. Apparently she still hasn't heard of free speech!!!Apparently I still haven't heard of free speech? You are clearly mixing me up with someone else.

    There is nothing illegal or irresponsible saying that the tension building could lead to violence. The thought may be scary, but not illegal. It is illegal for someone to say that they want to harm the president the united states, but not illegal to say that someone feels that there are others out there who want to do the same thing. It is opinion and not fact. I do not want to hurt anybody in the private school community, but do feel that there might be others out there who do. Pretty scary indeed, want this to change? Give the public back the public G_D damn schools back, and back the F off!!!!!Wow. How to even respond. First, thanks for proving my point about refusing to ever criticize behavior that is patently bad simply because it is coming from your political allies. Second, whether or not it's illegal, hate speech is wrong and it can be very dangerous. It is CERTAINLY irresponsible - particularly when the discussion concerns and is witnessed by children as in this case. That said, it still remains debatable whether the kind of talk we saw in this comment is just talk or if it is actually a threat, in which case the authorities should certainly get involved.

    Lots of speech is protected. Doesn't make inflammatory hate speech right.

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  4. Now who's talking about making things right?

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  5. It was horrendous. There, I said it. Now, let's focus on the kids of LPS15.

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  6. Too bad they never caught the person/people behind the death threats a couple of years ago. It would probably knock some sense in some people if the authorities would make an example of someone.

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  7. good morning,
    since you are moderating a blog on the future of the public schools and the educational future of other people's children, i am just wondering what knowledge you have of the public schools. we know that you are private school parents. have any of your children ever taken classes in the public schools? have you ever been in all of the schools? do you even know children enrolled in the public schools? hopefully, you will include some factual information in your conversation, not rumor and innuendo as your last time around orthomom. please share your educational experience and knowledge. otherwise, this is just a site advocating propoganda against children enrolled in the public school system

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  8. The person who made the statements is a terrorist, plan and simple. There are terrorists on both sides, who need to be controlled by the leadership

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  9. Anonymous said...

    good morning,
    since you are moderating a blog on the future of the public schools and the educational future of other people's children, i am just wondering what knowledge you have of the public schools. we know that you are private school parents. have any of your children ever taken classes in the public schools? have you ever been in all of the schools? do you even know children enrolled in the public schools? hopefully, you will include some factual information in your conversation, not rumor and innuendo as your last time around orthomom. please share your educational experience and knowledge. otherwise, this is just a site advocating propoganda against children enrolled in the public school system
    Good morning.
    Propaganda? What ever are you talking about? So let's get this straight. In your world, only a parent who has children in Public school can object to incendiary speech directed to them at a school board meeting? Only a parent who is a public school parent can vote in school board elections?

    I think that we both know that premise is way off base.

    Do you have anything more constructive and realistic to bring to the conversation? Because I'm happy to discuss, but your comment above is a non-starter.

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  10. when I read the blog, I didn't have to see the name, I knew orthomom was back. Many will say- about time, others well.....let's not go there.
    I have to say to orthomom "how did you get pulled into 3:05pm rants again!" You know with some people no matter what anyone does they will not be happy. Moaning, starting trouble is their way of life. Do not think every public school parent feels this way. Yes, public school parents are VERY upset with 5th graders going to middle school, closing the biggest, newest school, displacing of over 400 students, many severly disabled students. The ABA students attend the number 6 school. Cutting art, music, from the number 4 school. No GATE for any district students. Private school students were entitled to this program, I read Haftr parents are PAYING for this service! (Which the school district of Lawrence should have been providing for free all along!) Cutting aids in classrooms for the disabled students. Yes, cutting the number of aids to classrooms of the disabled, will start in
    SEPT. Many, many residents feel (know) the public school system of Lawrence is being dismantled right before our eyes. Many feel the private school parents don't care about the public schools, or the students. For if they did, they would be out helping. Please don't give me the 'well what have YOU done for Me lately'. For I will ask you the same question. If someone brings up things that went on in years past, then you are no better than 3:05.
    So good luck to this site, let the rants, I mean discussions begin!!

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  11. Propaganda? What ever are you talking about? So let's get this straight. In your world, only a parent who has children in Public school can object to incendiary speech directed to them at a school board meeting? Only a parent who is a public school parent can vote in school board elections?

    absolute nonsense. as a member of the community and a taxpayer, you have every right to participate in the voting process, etc. please also note that my remaarks did not anywhere address the nasty and dangerous remarks make by some misguided person. however, if you are going to make public declarations and, as your blog's mission states, you are moderating decisions concerning my child's educational future. i want to be sure that you are getting your information first hand, not second hand at best. last time around, it appeared as though your source was larry gordon, who is frequently prone to exaggeration and incorrect information. at question is your credibility and the sources of your information. unfortunately for 'orthomom', she has years of blogging reputations and her history on the subject of the lawrence public schools is not as open and fair minded as this blog would like us to believe.

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  12. last time around, it appeared as though your source was larry gordon, who is frequently prone to exaggeration and incorrect information. at question is your credibility and the sources of your information.That may be what you want to believe, but my readers knew full well that I always based my posts on facts and reliable sources. Feel free to peruse my blog and see for yourself.

    unfortunately for 'orthomom', she has years of blogging reputations and her history on the subject of the lawrence public schools is not as open and fair minded as this blog would like us to believe.How so? In that I have an opinion? Does that somehow surprise you? If I was here to simply report the news without any further comment I would be somewhat of a superfluous source.

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  13. Might I suggest that we shift back to some of the issues and constructive dialogue, rather than debating the credentials (irrelevant) of the blog host.

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  14. last time around, it appeared as though your source was larry gordon, who is frequently prone to exaggeration and incorrect information. at question is your credibility and the sources of your information.That may be what you want to believe, but my readers knew full well that I always based my posts on facts and reliable sources. Feel free to peruse my blog and see for yourself.

    i have followed your blog, and found your topics quite interesting and enlightening - except when you deal with the schools. i guess our opinion of reliability when it comes to sources of information is different. but that's what makes this a free society - our ability to agree to disagree

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  15. What a surprise. Orthomarm, queen of the five towns, has descended from her throne to express her disapproval of some of her unruly subjects.

    Yawn.

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  16. Come on fellows and girls, you all have something to contribute to life's purpose for humans, their dilemma with sin, and their eternal destiny. We're all in this together so let's issue a joint news release to let the world know that we are all on an equal level, with each of us making a contribution, and that we intend to work together for making the members of the human race one big happy and loving family!

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  17. You who dance in the streets at the expence of other jewish brethering shall pay the ultimate price. Your false prayers are about nothing but greed. A plague on your house has formed. The almighty shall smite those that have betrayed this wonderfull community and brought shame to the true Jewish cause of mitsvah.

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  18. A plague on your cattle!! And may your crops wilt in the rain.

    Learn to respect the way of life chosen by your neighbors, instead of disdain for their different appearance and resentment for their dedication to traditions from their ancestors. If you can't come to terms with declining enrollment in our public schools, you have only yourself to blame. Mayb you should focus more on procreation, rathern than faulting your neighbors for their private school preferences.

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  19. the community i grew up in has changed drastically over the past eight years, and i no longer feel comfortable driving around there anymore because i've gotten into three minor accidents with orthodox jews practicing ridiculous driving techniques - backing up off of side roads on to main roads, backing up at a red light despite traffic immediately behind them, etc. when you grow up going to a public school and your school district's budget doesn't pass one of the four years you're in high school (even the year it was lower than the austerity budget), and simultaneously you notice such reckless action on a regular basis, it creates a strong bias, one that will motivate you to succeed, no matter the costs...

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  20. this blog is a waste of time.... divisive....

    some points:

    "Public School candidates" that have been put up to run have been kind of WEAK.... the candidates that are orthodox have been much higher caliber as far as accountants, strong financial backgrounds, etc. --- much better equipped to run the board

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  21. some on the board are of much lower caliber as far as taking their responsibility of protecting and educating the public school population. this is a public school board of education after all. there is one member in particular who has shown himself to be totally disinterested and down right rude to the public school community. what about conflict of interest? one board member sits on the fence there also. being a member of the public school board of education should not be only about dollars, but sense as well. this board does not do right by the students enrolled in the public schools. better equipped to run a private school - maybe not so much better equipped to run a public school board.

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  22. this is a public school board of education after all.NEWS FLASH!! This is not a "public school board of education". This is a "school district board of education".

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  23. this is a public school board of education after all.NEWS FLASH!! This is not a "public school board of education". This is a "school district board of education".

    wrong- it is the Board of Education for the Lawrence Public Schools. go to the website:

    http://lawrence.org/district/board_of_education

    and their primary responsibility is the education of the children in the lawrence public schools.

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  24. As much as you'd like to believe that it is the "public school board of education", there is still no such thing. It has always been and will always be the board of education of the "Lawrence Union Free School District"

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  25. Union free? Maybe they don't pay dues, but they have a union. We, the public school community are extremely tolerant to others religious beliefs. We are a very diverse group. It's easy to make accusations, but the truth is out there. This is 100% about quality eduction, and 0% about religious intolerance.
    To call the entire Board of high caliber is a joke. It is the private school communities intolerance that has caused the division. No member of the public school community has a problem with Judaic studies. There is a place for it, and that place is not in our public schools. Eventually seperation of church and state will prevail, but the district will suffer neglect and harm for years before it comes to fruition.

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  26. I'm sure all of the private school parents appreciate that you have no "problem with Judaic studies". You'll be pleased to hear that private school parents have no "problem with non-judaic studies".

    BUT WE DO HAVE A BIG PROBLEM WITH WASTE AND FAILURE AND SKIMPING ON THE MINIMAL SERVICES THAT PRIVATE SCHOOL KIDS ARE ENTITLED TO.

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  27. Research shows that children who attend private school are more prone to homosexual tendancies.

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  28. 2:28 pm - please do your homework. the private school residents of school district 15 - the Lawrence Public Schools - receive over and above what is mandated by the state in services.

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  29. Homework done. If you care to look at other districts with similar demographics (i.e., more private school students than public school students) and you'll see we're trailing far behind.

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  30. actually, when making accusations about "skimping" on services to private schools, i prefer to look at what is mandated by the state and then compare to what is offered here.

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  31. No need - the LTA isn't in control anymore

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  32. "the private school residents of school district 15 - the Lawrence Public Schools - receive over and above what is mandated by the state in services."

    district 15 public school students also receive over and above what is mandated by the state.

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  33. How could they be receiving over and above if we're only spending $25k-$30k per student?

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  34. that number represents the entire budget divided by the number of students enrolled in the public schools.

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  35. This is so scary that someone would threaten a child. They should be tried for a hate crime. It is one thing to say something anti-semetic, but another thing to threaten harm against a child. Scary.

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